{"id":5704,"date":"2007-02-27T15:56:59","date_gmt":"2007-02-27T12:56:59","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/baskinoran.com\/?p=5704"},"modified":"2021-03-31T16:04:18","modified_gmt":"2021-03-31T13:04:18","slug":"mariano-saravia-argentina","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/baskinoran.com\/en\/mariano-saravia-argentina\/","title":{"rendered":"Mariano Saravia | Argentina"},"content":{"rendered":"

You are the one of few scientists from Turkey that <\/span>does not hesitate in speaking about the Genocide. <\/span>Which was the basis of the use of that expression?<\/span>. <\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Let us make one very important point clear at the b<\/span>eginning: I do NOT use the expression <\/span>\u201cgenocide\u201d. I use \u201cmass killings\u201d, \u201cethnic cleansin<\/span>g\u201d, etc.<\/span><\/p>\n

I do it not only because the element \u201cintent\u201d, the <\/span>core concept of the 1948 UN Genocide <\/span>Convention, is not proven as yet, but precisely be<\/span>cause this expression makes it thoroughly <\/span>impossible in Turkey to study the bloody events of <\/span>1915.<\/span><\/p>\n

Imagine that someone suddenly wakes you up at 0.4.0<\/span>0 o\u2019clock in the morning and that he <\/span>yells at you: \u201cYour grandfather was a Nazi\u201d. Beside<\/span>s, he tells you: \u201cAfter making apologies, <\/span>you will also pay indemnities and also give a part <\/span>of your apartment house to the children of <\/span>deceased for the wrongdoings of your grandfather\u201d. <\/span><\/p>\n

People of Turkey, especially the great majority who<\/span> live in central end western Turkey have <\/span>not heard anything about 1915 that happened in the <\/span>Ottoman Empire. Not a thing. Official <\/span>ideology hid everything during some 90 years.<\/span><\/p>\n

When met with such an expression which only means \u201c<\/span>hated Nazis\u201d in the eyes of the people <\/span>here, the Turks categorically refuse to hear anythi<\/span>ng that we, the reformers in Turkey, want to <\/span>inform them about. This stance of the \u201cnon-silent\u201d <\/span>sections of the Armenian diaspora is <\/span>definitely counter-productive. I understand that th<\/span>e negationist position of the Turkish State <\/span>causes this to a very great extend, but this sectio<\/span>n of the Diaspora tends to use this expression <\/span>in a fetishist way which is definitely revengist. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cJust tell us: Do you accept it is genocide or not?<\/span>!\u201d. Our beloved friend Hrant Dink had <\/span>answered this stance in a very subtle and rational <\/span>way. He said to the Diaspora: \u201cWhich one is <\/span>more important to you: That the Turks pronounce the<\/span> G-word, or that Turkey becomes a <\/span>democratic country where everything can be discusse<\/span>d?\u201d. <\/span><\/p>\n

I think I\u2019ll speak no more after what Hrant had sai<\/span>d.<\/span><\/p>\n

Which political consequences could have the recogni<\/span>tion of the Genocide? Is Turkey afraid of the <\/span>derivations as regards territorial integrity?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

First of all, the Diaspora must sit down and discus<\/span>s and decide between themselves about <\/span>what the Armenians want. <\/span><\/p>\n

For example, the Republic of Armenia wants to estab<\/span>lish normal relations with the Republic <\/span>of Turkey without any preconditions whatsoever. <\/span><\/p>\n

Some of the Diaspora want apologies. Some want apol<\/span>ogies+indemnities. Some want <\/span>apologies+indemnities+land. <\/span><\/p>\n

This stance of the Diaspora, let me put it once mor<\/span>e and for all, makes our job as human and <\/span>minority rights defenders here in Turkey very diffi<\/span>cult, and by the same token, it gives an <\/span>unbelievable amount of ammunition to Turkish nation<\/span>alists to fire at us.<\/span><\/p>\n

What are the changes in the society since Hrant Din<\/span>k’s death? At that moment, people shouted: <\/span>\u201cEveryone is Armenian!\u201d, do you think that this fac<\/span>t can mark a tendency in their believes?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cWe Are All Hrants\u201d and \u201cWe Are All Armenians\u201d shou<\/span>ted 100.000 people in Istanbul that <\/span>day. This means that people are beginning to learn.<\/span> Of course, there was an immediate mass <\/span>reaction to this from the eastern provinces especia<\/span>lly as: \u201cWe Are All Turks\u201d and \u201cWe Are <\/span>All Ogun Samasts\u201d (Ogun Samast is the suspected kil<\/span>ler). <\/span><\/p>\n

Do you know something about Orhan Pamuk\u2019s decision <\/span>to leave Turkey? <\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

One of the very large circulation newspapers here (<\/span>Sabah) published the other day that he is <\/span>coming back in April. He\u2019s currently teaching at Co<\/span>lumbia University, NY.<\/span><\/p>\n

Which is the position of the governement?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Quite positive in the way of human rights. But the <\/span>Government is now bewildered by the <\/span>immensely roaring tsunami of nationalism because it<\/span>\u2019s the election year (double election year: <\/span>the president of the Republic will be chosen in May<\/span>, and the general elections will be held in <\/span>November). <\/span><\/p>\n

This wave, by the way, is mainly a reaction to glob<\/span>alization conceived as \u201cEU intervention\u201d, <\/span>meaning the EU Harmonization Packages enacted betwe<\/span>en 2001 and 2004. This was a <\/span>modernizing \u201crevolution from above\u201d. Revolutions fr<\/span>om above change the laws, but not the <\/span>minds of people, which takes a very long process. T<\/span>urkey has accomplished in 70 years what <\/span>it took the western Europe to do in 400 years. Of c<\/span>ourse, this creates reactions. We\u2019ll endure <\/span>all that.<\/span><\/p>\n

Have you ever been threatened due to your public sp<\/span>eaking about Genocide? <\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes, ever since I published the \u201cMinority and Cultu<\/span>ral Rights Report\u201d in October 2004, and I <\/span>still am receiving threats of death. Now that Hrant<\/span> is killed, I have an official bodyguard <\/span>assigned by the Interior Ministry.<\/span><\/p>\n

Have you ever thought to leave Turkey? <\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Of course not. I was born here, raised here, studie<\/span>d here. This is my duty as a human rights <\/span>activist of Turkey. I owe that much to my country.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

You are the one of few scientists from Turkey that does not hesitate in speaking about the Genocide. Which was the basis of the use of that expression?. Let us make one very important point clear at the beginning: I do NOT use the expression \u201cgenocide\u201d. I use \u201cmass killings\u201d, \u201cethnic cleansing\u201d, etc. I do […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[53],"tags":[137],"class_list":["post-5704","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-interviews","tag-2007-en"],"yoast_head":"\nMariano Saravia | Argentina - Bask\u0131n Oran<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/baskinoran.com\/en\/mariano-saravia-argentina\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Mariano Saravia | Argentina - Bask\u0131n Oran\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"You are the one of few scientists from Turkey that does not hesitate in speaking about the Genocide. 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